Josh (josh-milburn.com & @JoshLMilburn & @aveganphilosopher) is a moral & political philosopher with research interests in animal ethics, the philosophy of food, liberal & libertarian political theory & applied ethics. He is a British Academy Postdoctoral Fellow in the Dept of Politics & International Relations at the University of Sheffield. He co-hosts the Knowing Animals podcast.
In these Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?” Sentientism is “evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” The audio is also on our Podcast – subscribe here on Apple & on all the other platforms here.
We discuss:
- Taking an interdisciplinary approach to academia & activism
- Encountering various religious traditions as a child
- Thinking “I don’t believe that” at 8 years old re: Noah’s ark
- Being a “militant atheist” as a teenager
- Studying religions to undergrad level
- What is real & what we can know to be real
- There is a world out there but we don’t know all about it
- Science & naturalism
- Dogma vs open-mindedness & humility
- Moral realism & different kinds of claim/evidence
- The dangers of moral relativism & nihilism
- Grounding morality in a naturalistic understanding of sentient beings & sentience. “I don’t suffering & I don’t think you do either”
- Pluralism
- Religious studies didn’t cover philosophy
- Being very resistant to vegetarianism. A fundamental challenge
- Reading Peter Singer at 17 while considering studying philosophy
- “Philosophers are often not the best activists”
- Philosophical arguments don’t have the same impact on everyone
- Some people “get it” but still don’t change. Others just don’t get it
- “Imagine animals had rights – how would we feed the world?… It would’t be a vegan food system.” Clean/cultivated meats & milks
- “Can we get to an ethical food system without people having to change their practices at all?”
- Animals where it’s less certain whether they are sentient. Invertebrates, oysters, jellyfish, insects, sponges
- Deciding how to act in the face of uncertainty
- “It’s got to be a high bar to say ‘you cannot do that thing that is central to your life'” but “Sentient animals have rights” and that’s enough to tell pig farmers to stop
- Edge cases re: veganism & animal ethics
- Liberalism & state coercion. Only using coercion when injustice is clear
- Having compassion for human sentients too, even those doing harm
- #JustTransition
- The history of the term “Sentientism”. Rodman, Richard Ryder, Peter Singer
- It’s hard not to be consequentialist in its broadest sense
- Deontological rules do have to pay attention to what happens
- Gary Francione’s abolitionism
- Sue Donaldson & Will Kymlicka’s Zoopolis
- Sentientism as a pluralistic philosophy
- “Animal activists don’t have to be on the political left”
- Sentientism rules out intra-human discriminations. Racism/homophobia etc. don’t belong
- Robert Nozick was a vegetarian & a libertarian
- Academics can find new ways of thinking about human-animal relations
- Activists need to meet people where they are
- Not every argument we have is about a perfect end-state
- Sometimes we have to work within existing systems
- How can liberalism be more friendly towards non-human animals
- Any political system will work better if more people are sentientist
- “Being a sentientist gives us more in common than sharing politics”
- The biggest political & ethical issue is what we’re doing to other animals
- Agreeing on the most fundamental issues is most important. Finding common ground
- Most people with supernatural worldviews use naturalism most of the time
- Most of those who consume animal products see animal suffering as negative
- “Change is coming because we have to change” re: animals, zoonosis, anti-microbial resistance, topsoil erosion, climate change
- Do the biggest problems have the most obvious solutions? But “humans are weird”
- Risks of motivated reasoning & non-scientific thinking in the vegan movement. “Wooganism”
- Veganism has many powerful positive effects but isn’t a perfect panacea
- Humans can respond well when the crisis is imminent and severe enough
- The generally positive community responses to COVID-19 might give us hope
- “Compassion isn’t enough” – we need naturalism too
- “Stamping out the risk of embracing nonsense in the vegan community”
- “If you want to collect crystals or enjoy tarot cards that’s fine – but…”
Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at sentientism.info. Join Josh on our “wall” using this simple form.
Everyone interested, Sentientist or not, is welcome to join our groups. The largest so far is here on Facebook.
Thanks to Graham for the post-prod. Follow him @cgbessellieu.